Turk Kahvesi - Special Flavour

[MaxK]

Merhaba arkadaşlar,

It's me again, posting in English for lack of linguistic skill - I will be able to translate Turkish responses, if you prefer to give them, tough.

On topic: During the last few weeks, I ground a heterogeneous sample of different beans from different origins and with different roasts in search for the special or typical flavour of Turkish Coffee that I remember from Turkey. As none of these tries matched what I was looking for, I bought Mehmet Efendi's ground coffee to finally get it. Unexpectedly, it didn't have this special flavour neither, so I assumed my expectation to be generated by a delusional memory. Until today, when I tasted "OSSO Osmanli Kahvesi", that, in spite of being aromatised, possessed exactly the flavour I hunted for.

I am now asking you, appreciating your expertise, if you know which special flavour I'm talking about, if it generally can't be found in Mehmet Efendi's coffee (or if my batch was somehow atypical) and how it is achieved (special growing-region, special roast, etc.). Also, I'd be very grateful for any recommendations of (unaromatised) brands that have that taste as well. Please also let me know if you can specify whole beans with this property.

Before asking here, I did some research myself and could not find out much, except for one difference between Mehmet Efendi and Osso: Whereas the first seems to use Brazilian beans, the latter declares "Yemen Coffee" on the ingredients list. May this explain the whole difference?

Thanks for your help in advance!

MaxK

 

[utkukaya]

Hi Max,
As I understand you, you want to reach a special cup of Turkish coffee. But if you choose Mehmet Efendi's coffee, you can't feel the special flavours. Turkish people are accustomed more burnt flavours in the coffee. So, Mehmet Efendi's coffees are very very dark roast and unspecial. I think that's why you didn't like it. Maybe you can choose more special beans for Turkish coffee. And be careful, don't be more very light roast. Medium or medium plus roast are very good for Turkish coffee

 

[rhino]

Never heard of the OSSO brand so I cannot comment on that. But Mehmet Efendi is your run of the mill brand for Turkish coffee, famous and somewhat dull tasting.

I personally prefer Kurukahveci Nuri Toplar and recommend that you try it if you happen to find it in your neck of the woods.
Here is the link to their website:

Kurukahveci Nuri Toplar-Kurukahveci Nuri Toplar

Kuru Kahveci Nuri Toplar Kahve ve Gıda Pazarlama Ltd. Åti.

www.kurukahvecinuritoplar.com

In any case,I think all of these brands are best consumed freshly grinded on site and lose most of their flavor when bought pre-packaged.
As @utkukaya suggested, you can try your own favorite speciality beans as Turkish coffee and may find them to your liking.

Good luck on your journey for good Turkish coffee!

 

[OkanT]

Merhaba arkadaşlar,

It's me again, posting in English for lack of linguistic skill - I will be able to translate Turkish responses, if you prefer to give them, tough.

On topic: During the last few weeks, I ground a heterogeneous sample of different beans from different origins and with different roasts in search for the special or typical flavour of Turkish Coffee that I remember from Turkey. As none of these tries matched what I was looking for, I bought Mehmet Efendi's ground coffee to finally get it. Unexpectedly, it didn't have this special flavour neither, so I assumed my expectation to be generated by a delusional memory. Until today, when I tasted "OSSO Osmanli Kahvesi", that, in spite of being aromatised, possessed exactly the flavour I hunted for.

I am now asking you, appreciating your expertise, if you know which special flavour I'm talking about, if it generally can't be found in Mehmet Efendi's coffee (or if my batch was somehow atypical) and how it is achieved (special growing-region, special roast, etc.). Also, I'd be very grateful for any recommendations of (unaromatised) brands that have that taste as well. Please also let me know if you can specify whole beans with this property.

Before asking here, I did some research myself and could not find out much, except for one difference between Mehmet Efendi and Osso: Whereas the first seems to use Brazilian beans, the latter declares "Yemen Coffee" on the ingredients list. May this explain the whole difference?

Thanks for your help in advance!

MaxK

Can you explain, clarify “special flavour” please, and also your coffee drinking habits and background information will get you better recommendations? Otherwise what you mention, especially on specialty focused coffee group, is perceived as negative, defected, not special etc.

 

[ozcrh]

i think you drinked some "flavored" coffee, search for "Dibek Coffee" it is a turkish coffee style with lots of spices, search for "menengiç" coffee it is not a coffee technically and search for "damla sakızı" coffee.. it is a natural gum flavor..

 

[MaxK]

Thanks a lot, everyone. I will reply more specifically tomorrow, but so far, I can say that I do know Nuri Toplar and it is perfectly possible that it is in fact what I'm looking for as I used to buy this years ago. Can you explain the technical difference between this brand and Mehmet Efendi?

Mehmet Efendi tastes and smells, in my opinion, sort of like espresso, whereas the Turkish Coffee I used to drink in Turkey (households and restaurants) had a very unique taste, not similar to any American or European version of coffee.

 

[MaxK]

One additional hint: I'm not really searching for specialty coffee (in this case), but for what is normal standard. It's hard to explain which special taste I mean, it's even harder to search for via Google, and, although you're oriented towards specialty coffee, you're the only online group of coffee aficionados from Turkey I now of.

 

[CongoFather]

Another alternative for Turkish Coffee, if you are living in İstanbul, is "Fazil Bey". It is also a very famous turkish coffee brand in İstanbul. Their main store is located in Kadikoy. They have also started selling turkish coffee on Trendyol.com. So, people living in different cities can also buy it.

Fazıl Bey’ in Türk Kahvesi 250 Gr Klasik Geleneksel Türk Kahvesi Fazılbey Kahve Fiyatı, Yorumları - TRENDYOL

Fazıl Bey’ in Türk Kahvesi 250 Gr Klasik Geleneksel Türk Kahvesi Fazılbey Kahve yorumlarını inceleyin, Trendyol'a özel indirimli fiyata satın alın.

www.trendyol.com

 

[pofpof]

Hi @MaxK ,
Here is another point of view for the situation if it interests you.

Traditional Turkish coffe beans are Brazilian Rio Minas beans. Most of the traditional roasters including Mehmet Efendi roasts this kind of beans. As Rio Manas is lack of aromas and tends to be sour, it is commanly roasted at the dark side. I have an opinion that you may have drink a Turkish Coffee roasted from Rio Minas beans but not as dark roasted as traditional Turkish Roasters like Mehmet Efendi. There is a unique flavor of Rio Minas which may be the special flavour that you are talking about. Just maybe

If you think this may be the situation then you should look for a slightly lighter roasted traditional Turkis Coffee beans.

 

[puspus]

Hi Max. Welcome to kahvekulubu.
first of all want to ask you where you from?
As I understood You tasted Turkish coffee in Turkish restaurants. I believe that they are very common and same coffees, like Mehmet efendi or other grounded coffees, and probably brewed in machines.
I thought, the flovour you are looking for is “ acı türk kahvesi” in people language, which is bitter, not has very special aromas.
I know you are looking for a turkish coffee grinder, find a Sözen if you can, and brew ypur own coffee from different beans, and look for more specific aromas. Yes, the traditional turkish coffee ( unquality rio minas beans, very dark roast) has a flovour ( acı (bitter) türk kahvesi) but it is really not a special one. But you will reach much more better aromas if you brew from special beans.

 

[UçanHollandalı]

Turkish translate:

Bir kaç hafta boyunca Türkiyeden gelen farklı kavrumlardan ve farklı çekirdeklerden türk kahvesi denedim. Mehmet efendiden çekilmiş kahve aldım ama özel tadı felan yoktu ya da bana öyle geliyor. Bugün osso osmanlı kahvesini denedim, tadı aromatikti ama tam istediğim kahve dedim.

Genel türk kahvesi tavsiyelerinizi almak isterim. Forumdan önce mehmet efendi vs osso farkını aradım ama pek bulamadım, mehmet efendi brezilya çekirdeği osso yemen çekirdek acaba fark bundan mı

(evet google translate ile de çevirebilirdi turkish misafirperverlik olsun, arkadaşlar siz türkçe yazabilirsiniz ben ing ye çevirmeye çalışabilirim
not ingilizcem mükemmel değil insan olarak hata yapabiliriz elbette)

@MaxK actuallly ı got just suprised how did you find this website LOL but you're in the place that clean as a whistle, as you saw ı wrote turkish for people who dont speak english so they can able to write turkish and ı'll write to u english

 

[MaxK]

Sorry, everyone, for the delay, I'm now going to respond in greater detail:

you want to reach a special cup of Turkish coffee

Actually, yes, but "special" meaning the typical flavour I attribute to Turkish Coffee, not special understood as atypical, third-wavey or anything the like (especially not sour or "fruity").

Mehmet Efendi's coffees are very very dark roast

I can confirm that. I'm also pretty sure that what I'm looking for has to be a lighter roast.

I personally prefer Kurukahveci Nuri Toplar

As already mentioned above, I know this brand and it is possible that it is this one which created my flavour-expectations. Do you have any idea which quality of this brand creates its flavour, e.g. which beans they use? I could not find any other information on that than their roasting it on wood fire.

you can try your own favorite speciality beans as Turkish coffee

Sure, and I did, but none of them possessed the typical flavour in question. I could continue trying randomly, but with thousands of possibilities on the market, I won't ever find the right one. That's why I'm requesting guidance on this search.

Can you explain, clarify “special flavour” please, and also your coffee drinking habits and background information will get you better recommendations? Otherwise what you mention, especially on specialty focused coffee group, is perceived as negative, defected, not special etc.

As I wrote above, "special" just means "typical", special compared to European or American flavours. Therefore, my habits apart from this one requirement are of no help in finding this flavour. I understand that this kind of request is not the main field of interest for most of you, but I assume many users of this board live or did live in Turkey and probably know what is common among mainstream drinkers. I do, in fact, enjoy other flavours that could be more to your liking as well, just in this particular case I try to replicate something from my memory, regardless of its reputation among real coffee-lovers.

i think you drinked some "flavored" coffee

Yes, I did, as far as I reported about "OSSO". What I'm looking for is, however, not the "flavoured" aspect and was found in unflavoured versions in the past.

if you are living in İstanbul

No, not even close, see below.

people living in different cities can also buy it

I'll have a look at that one, then, thank you!

There is a unique flavor of Rio Minas which may be the special flavour that you are talking about.

I read about this kind of beans as well. I'm not sure if it is more likely that what I mean is a Rio Minas-trait or exactly the opposite. As "OSSO" with its containing of "Yemen Coffee" perfectly matched what I am searching for, whereas the "Brasilian" Mehmet Efendi didn't, I consider it more likely to be either unrelated to the origin of the beans or even a trait of African harvests.

Hi Max. Welcome to kahvekulubu.
first of all want to ask you where you from?

Thank you - and all of you - for your warm welcome! I am from Germany and therefore mostly limited to the EU-market for my purchases.

I thought, the flovour you are looking for is “ acı türk kahvesi” in people language, which is bitter, not has very special aromas.

Yes, "bitter" in fact describes it well, but, obviously, it's a special kind of bitterness that is hardly describable. Thanks for the Turkish words for this, they are likely to ameliorate the search!

I know you are looking for a turkish coffee grinder, find a Sözen if you can, and brew ypur own coffee from different beans, and look for more specific aromas.

After some research, I found one - they seem to be very rare over here, only one importer offers them at a reasonable price and they're often sold out. It creates great results, I am able to grind even much finer than the pre-ground Mehmet Efendi and the resulting beverage is very much to my liking - except for the missing flavour-aspect I'm talking about in this thread.
I should maybe emphasise that this aroma is not only a flavour I notice while drinking, but also a nuance in the smell of the ground coffee: When smelling the OSSO-product, I think: "Ah, that's what Turkish Coffee tasted - and smelled - like", whereas when smelling Mehmet Efendi, I think: "Nice espresso powder". I mention this to clarify that this special flavour cannot result from a special grinding or brewing.

Yes, the traditional turkish coffee ( unquality rio minas beans, very dark roast) has a flovour ( acı (bitter) türk kahvesi) but it is really not a special one. But you will reach much more better aromas if you brew from special beans.

I'm absolutely sure you are right and I will try different beans and flavours for sure (as I already did), but one thing I absolutely want to achieve is the reproduction of what I believe to be the scent and flavour of what I drank in Turkey and with its people.

@MaxK actuallly ı got just suprised how did you find this website LOL but you're in the place that clean as a whistle, as you saw ı wrote turkish for people who dont speak english so they can able to write turkish and ı'll write to u english

I found it using Turkish search-queries on Google to gather information on what I was looking for. It's always better to search for original, native information and ask the people who are nearest to what you're looking for. In my mother tongue, everything you can find on this topic is marketing of some brands or fake-recipes of self-proclaimed experts on foreign cultures.
I very much appreciate your translation and would be very happy to provide one myself, but unfortunately my turkish-skills end at the casing of my fridge, meaning that I'm hardly able to write any complete sentence that you could understand. Therefore, I cannot even check or correct a Google-translate-result.

 

[MaxK]

I deepened my research and gained some new information tasting two other kinds of pre-ground standard Turkish Coffee:

The first one by Kahve Dünyası, çok kavrulmuş. It tasted similar to Mehmet Efendi's:



The second one by Pınar, not stated how kavrulmuş. It tasted nothing like the other samples and possessed exactly the specific taste I was hunting for:



Both are Brazilian Arabicas. Considering that Osso used Yemeni coffee and met what I was looking for as well, I assume the specific harvest or origin is not what constitutes this taste. Seeing that Kahve Dünyası is labelled çok kavrulmuş and looks as dark as Mehmet Efendi, which was considered strongly roasted here, whereas Pınar looks pretty blond (I cannot evaluate Osso, though, as it is mixed with cream powder), I now believe that it is in fact the (light) roast that gives this flavour.

Unfortunately, there is still one missing link: I ground light or medium roasted beans meant to be used for European filter coffee using my Sözen-grinder. Some of them made a decent cup, but none showed even the slightest nuance of the aroma in question. They tended to be sour, whereas Pınar isn't, at least not to any stronger extent.

Therefore - and as I pursue the roads towards finding purchasable whole beans that make this taste -, I annoy you with another bunch of questions:

1. Do you agree to my considerations so far?
2. Which roast degree do you know or believe Pınar to use?
3. Which beans (origin, variety, or the like) would you recommend in general?

Thank you again for providing me with the opportunity to gather fascinating insights!

 

[MaxK]

Addition: On their website, Pınar label their coffee as orta kavrum, confirming my assumption of a lighter roast.

 

[puspus]

Hi Max.
In general, most of turkish coffees are dark roast, like espresso. But, in last times, the special coffee brewers, choise more lighter beans when they brew turkish coffee. The dark one is about I mentioned before "acı türk kahvesi" , bitter aromas.
Yemen coffee beans are very special for turkish coffee. And we have a idiom about that " Kahve Yemen'den gelir" means " The Coffee comes from Yemen!" . I believe, the advanture ( hisyory) of turkish coffee began with Yemen coffee beans. but in time,and with coffee suply from Yemen getting hard, the cheaper Brazilian beans take the bazaar. If you find any yemeni beans, must try in turkish coffee. They taste much more better from Brazilian beans.
We have expert baristas (especially in Turkish coffee), they recommend Ethiopia's coffee beans, natural process beans. but it is really up your own taste.
In Germany, you can find much more things about Turkish coffee, I thought. Because as you know, Germany has the most Turkish population in Europe.
never hesistate about asking anything. we love to share our knowledge. kahvekulubü is here for that.

 

[MaxK]

Thanks a lot, @puspus!

If I come across any Yemeni or Ethiopian beans, I definitely will try them.

Germany has, in fact, a huge Turkish community and I'm pretty sure they know their beverages. Still, Turkish supermarkets offer somewhat reduced choices over here, mostly going for standard products. Turkish friends tend to import from Turkey whenever they crave something special or they just stick to their favourite brand if available. Specialised retailers are rare, so there is no great chance of finding a store specialised in Turkish Coffee. All this surely is the reason why I didn't come across Yemeni or Ethiopian Coffee, let alone whole beans, so far - the Osso-stuff was a present from İzmir.

Finding authentic information on Turkish products and culture is hard as well: I assume most expats use their mother tongue whenever they want to discuss something specific online; German content most certainly addresses tourists and those in search for easy "exotic" recipes.

I agree that it's best advice to just find the beans that match the personal taste to the greatest extent possible, no matter if for a Turkish or any other brew (I, in the absence of a real Espresso machine, adore the results of Bialetti's "Brikka"). My insistence in finding some exact taste I attribute to Turkish Coffee has two main reasons: Sentimental memories and the intent to match my Turkish in-laws' taste. No European beans I ever came across produced this aroma, for whatever reason this could be. Still, I don't like to stick to the pre-ground products Turkish supermarkets offer due to their aroma losses.